The individual perspectives we’ve been offered in the past have been one-sided in nature and abusive. This is precisely what the antagonists have wanted, and precisely what their newest GL does not. So why are we only hearing select voices and a whole lot of straw men in response? What is the official position of the Grand Orient on this matter? And why haven’t the Grand Master or Grand Orator (an actual one-time member and Past Master of said lodge) of this brand new Orient made an official response? Surely this issue deserves some honest reply, if not for the sake of the newly formed Grand Orient, at least to answer the questions of those in search of entry into the craft who are not aware that there are jurisdictional as well as core belief issues being debated.
One main question that has bothered many of the community has been the lack of an official response by the newly formed Grand Orient of the United States. Anyone who has participated in any of the online forums and e-lists for any length of time knows their newly crowned Grand Master to be a voice of reform and many ideas. Above all, he is known for voicing his opinion. Why haven’t we heard from him on this matter? And more directly, what is his opinion of the detrimental effect this issue is having on his Orient?
To offer some perspective, I have, under the Freedom of Information Act, obtained a copy of the official charges made in the matter, and offer the Masonic community at large the chance to read for themselves the allegations made by the Grand Lodge of Ohio against the former members of Halcyon. The only changes made to the original document as I received it are the names of all involved are reduced to initials.
One main question that has bothered many of the community has been the lack of an official response by the newly formed Grand Orient of the United States. Anyone who has participated in any of the online forums and e-lists for any length of time knows their newly crowned Grand Master to be a voice of reform and many ideas. Above all, he is known for voicing his opinion. Why haven’t we heard from him on this matter? And more directly, what is his opinion of the detrimental effect this issue is having on his Orient?
To offer some perspective, I have, under the Freedom of Information Act, obtained a copy of the official charges made in the matter, and offer the Masonic community at large the chance to read for themselves the allegations made by the Grand Lodge of Ohio against the former members of Halcyon. The only changes made to the original document as I received it are the names of all involved are reduced to initials.
12 comments:
Hello,
I appreciated reading the postings, however, seeing the legal charges made by the GL of Ohio doesn't in itself make those charges true. I am sure that everyone involved is looking forward to the day when this is finally resolved in the courts and can all move on.
Mr. C.,
Thank you for your offer to respond. Yes, I know who you are and where your shop is, although I recall you using a much different name for your business. I have heard you talk about this, in person and online and your thoughts on this are, aside from the language and heat, still not letting anyone know as much as this court document has.
What I’m still confused about is the different tone in both your posts. One seems brotherly and really concerned about telling me in a calm and peaceful way what the issues you feel are not addressed. The other is less flattering; back to the way I’ve seen you talk in person and post in the past. You really can’t wait to brag about how you’re going to beat them down.
Which is the real answer? Which one is the way your new friends would want to hear you answer?
As far as the name-dropping, that doesn’t sound right either. I haven’t met everyone you mentioned, but I have met some of them and they seemed like really calm, understanding men who would listen to a brother. The ones I talked to were very understanding and felt bad about my situation, so I wonder why they didn’t help you out. If you actually personally sat down with them and told them there was something wrong, why didn’t they act? Did they tell you? Or did you mug them, which would have made your problem less an issue for them to be concerned about over your methods?
“Forgiveness is the fragrance the violet
sheds on the heel that has crushed it.“
~ Mark Twain
The ones I talked to were very understanding and felt bad about my situation, so I wonder why they didn’t help you out. If you actually personally sat down with them and told them there was something wrong, why didn’t they act?
what happened to john whitehouse when he attempted to help?
the reason why no one acted was because of Fear, loss of appointment or Title?
who knows, but whitehouse was the only one who acted and got shafted by his own?
2 bowl said:
The ones I talked to were very understanding and felt bad about my situation, so I wonder why they didn’t help you out. If you actually personally sat down with them and told them there was something wrong, why didn’t they act?
My reply:
Mr. T.C., maybe it’s the way you approached people. You use graphic language that doesn’t help you sound like you’re really looking for help, and you’re aggressive when anyone asks something you don’t know the answer to.
Speaking for myself, when I asked men what they knew about the situation, I was told that lodge matters tend to be internal, and if no one asks for help in understanding the Grand Laws, ignorance of the law isn’t an excuse. Your obligation was to uphold the laws, rules and regulations of the Grand Lodge. If you never took the time to understand that every lodge – not just Halcyon – needs to obey the rules, you can’t claim ignorance.
Mr. T.C., you were a PM from another lodge and stood in as an officer many times at Halcyon. If you took the obligation as you were getting your degrees, you swore to the same thing – to uphold the laws, rules and regulations – at every step in your journey, just as I did. Then, as it was pointed out to me, you swore each time you were moved up in office in the line, that as an officer of the lodge you renewed your obligation to understanding, enforcing, upholding and obeying the laws, rules and regulations of the Grand Lodge. It was your duty as an officer to read and know what the Grand Laws were. It was your duty as an officer to make sure everyone was on the level when they acted as a lodge. As Master of the lodge, you were sworn in and then admonished that you, as WM, had the highest responsibility to keep the laws – both of the lodge and Grand Lodge.
If this statement is not true, I’d love to hear back from you as to why you feel that it never applied to you, to the officers of Halcyon, and to the Temple Board.
2 bowl said:
the reason why no one acted was because of Fear, loss of appointment or Title?
My reply:
Guess you don’t have to fear loosing a title with the Grand Orient of the United States if you disobey them?
Will the Grand Orient of the United States have patience with your speaking out on these issues?
Will the Grand Orient of the United States be glad that they can count you as a member in another year, or will they have been as mislead as former members of Franklin Circle/Halcyon lodge #498 feel now?
How do members of the Grand Orient of the United States feel about the court case?
Are they aware of what has transpired?
Do they know that your group has refused all attempts at sitting down and talking things out with the Grand Lodge through a court appointed mediator?
Are the officers and members of Grand Orient of the United States willing to stand behind you and continue to support your group, even though they may be loosing the building soon?
Will members of the Grand Orient of the United States be present in January when the case goes before a judge?
For those of you looking up the comments here, apparently "2 bowl" has removed his comments from the above replies. It was his response to the original post that I was replying to in the above. I won't quote the entire post he gave, just the parts to which I was responding. It's only fair that anyone reading later be able to see the reason why I gave the responses I did.
2 bowl said:
Post any questions you might have and I will answer them honestly.
if you live in cleveland, come to my shop, most 22nd masonic district masons know where my shop is, stop in, I will buy you a cup of coffee, and tell you all that I can.
I replied:
Mr. C.,
Thank you for your offer to respond. Yes, I know who you are and where your shop is, although I recall you using a much different name for your business. I have heard you talk about this, in person and online and your thoughts on this are, aside from the language and heat, still not letting anyone know as much as this court document has.
What I’m still confused about is the different tone in both your posts. One seems brotherly and really concerned about telling me in a calm and peaceful way what the issues you feel are not addressed. The other is less flattering; back to the way I’ve seen you talk in person and post in the past. You really can’t wait to brag about how you’re going to beat them down.
Which is the real answer? Which one is the way your new friends would want to hear you answer?
2 bowl then said:
If you really care about what transpired, ask PDDGM John Whitehouse or PDDGHP Bob Trigg...
they have a clue at least as to what went on...
I also had a long talk with PDDGM Jim O Gillihan about the #498 situation back in '05......
Seek me out and lets discuss this in person....
To which I replied:
As far as the name-dropping, that doesn’t sound right either. I haven’t met everyone you mentioned, but I have met some of them and they seemed like really calm, understanding men who would listen to a brother. The ones I talked to were very understanding and felt bad about my situation, so I wonder why they didn’t help you out. If you actually personally sat down with them and told them there was something wrong, why didn’t they act? Did they tell you? Or did you mug them, which would have made your problem less an issue for them to be concerned about over your methods?
I think that if you have the courage to type a response, then what's the difficulty in leaving it there? Aside from any foul language or outright objectionable material (read the rules of service for this wonderful free service) I don't think there was anything you should have deleted, "2 bowl". Maybe you were told to “erase” your comments. I don’t know, since there’s nothing to go on, just deleted words.
Getting back to things, I was just asking why there appeared to be a duality to your answer, sounding like you’d really like to discuss this rationally, and in another response to the charges the Grand Lodge of Ohio was definitely a different thought process coming from you.
I have talked with you, face to face about this in the past, and I don’t think you’re the best person to talk with about this, since your name isn’t on anything, you weren’t involved in the process of creating this “charity”, otherwise your name would be on the court documents, wouldn’t it? That’s one of the reasons I looked up the case and went through it. Your name may be on things now, but it wasn’t any of your idea, although that’s not how you’ve made it sound to anyone who talks to you.
This issue is one that causes very intense emotions, especially when you feel someone isn’t instantly on your side when faced with your aggressive and crude version. I don’t think you’re the best person to talk with on this issue, and you certainly shouldn’t be the one lone voice of Franklin Circle/Halcyon. It’s embarrassing, not just for anyone representing Franklin Circle, but to the craft as a whole.
For those of you looking up the comments here, apparently "2 bowl" has removed his comments from the above replies. It was his response to the original post that I was replying to in the above. I won't quote the entire post he gave, just the parts to which I was responding. It's only fair that anyone reading later be able to see the reason why I gave the responses I did.
2 bowl said:
Post any questions you might have and I will answer them honestly.
if you live in cleveland, come to my shop, most 22nd masonic district masons know where my shop is, stop in, I will buy you a cup of coffee, and tell you all that I can.
I replied:
Mr. C.,
Thank you for your offer to respond. Yes, I know who you are and where your shop is, although I recall you using a much different name for your business. I have heard you talk about this, in person and online and your thoughts on this are, aside from the language and heat, still not letting anyone know as much as this court document has.
What I’m still confused about is the different tone in both your posts. One seems brotherly and really concerned about telling me in a calm and peaceful way what the issues you feel are not addressed. The other is less flattering; back to the way I’ve seen you talk in person and post in the past. You really can’t wait to brag about how you’re going to beat them down.
Which is the real answer? Which one is the way your new friends would want to hear you answer?
2 bowl then said:
If you really care about what transpired, ask PDDGM John Whitehouse or PDDGHP Bob Trigg...
they have a clue at least as to what went on...
I also had a long talk with PDDGM Jim O Gillihan about the #498 situation back in '05......
Seek me out and lets discuss this in person....
To which I replied:
As far as the name-dropping, that doesn’t sound right either. I haven’t met everyone you mentioned, but I have met some of them and they seemed like really calm, understanding men who would listen to a brother. The ones I talked to were very understanding and felt bad about my situation, so I wonder why they didn’t help you out. If you actually personally sat down with them and told them there was something wrong, why didn’t they act? Did they tell you? Or did you mug them, which would have made your problem less an issue for them to be concerned about over your methods?
I think that if you have the courage to type a response, then what's the difficulty in leaving it there? Aside from any foul language or outright objectionable material (read the rules of service for this wonderful free service) I don't think there was anything you should have deleted, "2 bowl". Maybe you were told to “erase” your comments. I don’t know, since there’s nothing to go on, just deleted words.
Getting back to things, I was just asking why there appeared to be a duality to your answer, sounding like you’d really like to discuss this rationally, and in another response to the charges the Grand Lodge of Ohio was definitely a different thought process coming from you.
I have talked with you, face to face about this in the past, and I don’t think you’re the best person to talk with about this, since your name isn’t on anything, you weren’t involved in the process of creating this “charity”, otherwise your name would be on the court documents, wouldn’t it? That’s one of the reasons I looked up the case and went through it. Your name may be on things now, but it wasn’t any of your idea, although that’s not how you’ve made it sound to anyone who talks to you.
This issue is one that causes very intense emotions, especially when you feel someone isn’t instantly on your side when faced with your aggressive and crude version. I don’t think you’re the best person to talk with on this issue, and you certainly shouldn’t be the one lone voice of Franklin Circle/Halcyon. It’s embarrassing, not just for anyone representing Franklin Circle, but to the craft as a whole.
Folks,
Mr. T.C. has deleted his original post, which would make reading my response a bit difficult, so I will offer you the details of his original post.
2 bowl :
#36 is a complete lie.
in september, the WM, TR. and Sec of the Lodge sat down with steve krekas, tom galyon and brad geobel at 3615 euclid in the steven j krekas room in september of '07 where they inspected halcyon's books and were made aware of the transaction and asked many questions.(NOT IN NOV AT AN ANNUAL INSPECTION)
#37 happened as a result of the meeting between the officers and the grand officers in sept, not from an audit in November.
that is just one of the "mis" representation's that will be handled in court..... The real question is: at what point does the grand lodge feel they have spent too much on something they may not have standing on? Their legal bill must be over $100,000.00 by now, and things are only going to get more expensive... second question: where is the money comming from to pay for this? That will be interesting where in the budget this falls under? since we follow rules so well?
Things are now just getting started.......... you should have seen george o braatz face when the mediator was told that the "old guard" had not paid taxes in over 20 years! See, columbus was never really kept abreast as to what shenanigans went on in the temple prior to the young men joining! Wait till all that comes to Light!
wait till depositions start ! wait till you see the names that get dragged out! Illustrious this and Knight that, playing games for over 20 years in that building.. where were the DDGM's that inspected that place all those years? why did grand master mayberry remove old guard guys from their postitions? not the youngsters? who could have been the DDGM's that overlooked all the books during those years? Why would not DDGM's be able to handle that building and situation? maybe the guys who ran the books for all those years? that is where this will unravel!
My reply:
Mr. T.C., as you can tell, knows a lot more details about the case than anyone else has admitted to in public. Mr. T.C., I would like you to offer any more details that you think might be helpful to anyone else looking for reasons as to why your group felt it was truly necessary to take something they never owned and give it away?
Maybe I shouldn’t really ask you though, since your name was not found on any of the court documents I saw. Is there anyone out there who knows why it was necessary to go so far? Why didn’t you feel you could work with any of the people who came to help you? I know there were at least three men who attended lodge on different occasions who were willing to offer assistance if you didn’t understand how to run the lodge. I admit myself that all those Grand Laws and By-laws are tough to get if you’ve never had experience with them before. What I found funny was you actually had a lawyer among the brethren. Why didn’t you ask his advice before?
Just in case you missed another post that was deleted, and are wondering what I was responding to, here is, unedited for your reading, Mr. T.C.’s full and complete post. In future, please be aware (Mr. T.C., et. al.) that I will post my reply inside of a copy of your response, just so you can’t keep deleting your responses. So keep on punching!
2 bowl:
III. The Discovery and Aftermath
36. In November of 2007, in the course of conducting an annual audit of the Halcyon Lodge, Grand Lodge of Ohio officials confirmed the transfer of the Lodge assets to Halcyon Charities. The Grand Lodge of Ohio had not documentation of the transaction until this time.
37. Representatives of the Grand Lodge of Ohio thereafter attended a stated meeting of the Halcyon Lodge on November 12, 2007. These representatives demanded that the cash and equities, including the Temple Company stock, be returned to the Halcyon Lodge and its members within forty-eight hours.
#36 is a complete lie.
in september, the WM, TR. and Sec of the Lodge sat down with steve krekas, tom galyon and brad geobel at 3615 euclid in the steven j krekas room in september of '07 where they inspected halcyon's books and were made aware of the transaction and asked many questions.(NOT IN NOV AT AN ANNUAL INSPECTION)
#37 happened as a result of the meeting between the officers and the grand officers in sept, not from an audit in November.
that is just one of the "mis" representation's that will be handled in court.....
The real question is: at what point does the grand lodge feel they have spent too much on something they may not have standing on?
Their legal bill must be over $100,000.00 by now, and things are only going to get more expensive...
second question: where is the money comming from to pay for this? That will be interesting where in the budget this falls under? since we follow rules so well?
Things are now just getting started..........
you should have seen george o braatz face when the mediator was told that the "old guard" had not paid taxes in over 20 years! See, columbus was never really kept abreast as to what shenanigans went on in the temple prior to the young men joining!
Wait till all that comes to Light!
wait till depositions start !
wait till you see the names that get dragged out!
Illustrious this and Knight that, playing games for over 20 years in that building.. where were the DDGM's that inspected that place all those years?
why did grand master mayberry remove old guard guys from their postitions? not the youngsters?
who could have been the DDGM's that overlooked all the books during those years?
Why would not DDGM's be able to handle that building and situation?
maybe the guys who ran the books for all those years?
that is where this will unravel!
My reply:
Again, Mr. T.C., how are you paying for this legal fiesta? I know you can’t wait to be there for each and every deposition. I hope that the Halcyon-Grand Orient of the United States group has the backing, since you didn’t want any part of the pre-trial reconciliation or mediation.
Quick question, why did the lodge change its name from Franklin Circle to Halcyon? Did it merge with another lodge?
FD2L said...
Quick question, why did the lodge change its name from Franklin Circle to Halcyon? Did it merge with another lodge?
Sorry it's taken so long to respond, but here's what I found out. Halcyon did exist a very long time ago, something like the last quarter of the 19th century. Then came mergers, it was decided to go with a new name and the oldest number. Don't know how that works exactly, but I'm just passing on information I learned because of your question.
The new club wanted to get rid of the Franklin Circle name and go back to being called Halcyon because they had a lot of really old fancy purple, blue and white aprons(ironic, ain't it?)along with a bunch of pure gold and silver medals the old PM's left behind.
Hope that helps answer your question!
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